ClickBankSuccessForum.com

[WayneB]

I decided to test the Zango Search Assistant again with Clickbank
products, haven't done this in a while. I've just checked four sites
by going through a hoplink, and 180solutions Zango Search Assistant
popped up on three of them. I am reporting this to Clickbank along
with screenshots. If any vendors are getting sales from 'teampres',
'sixsig' or 'idname' there is a good chance they are stealing these sales
from other affiliates by popping over top of others sites with the exact
same site only with their own id, using the Zango Search Assistant. I
don't know how many other id's there could be doing this, I have just
started to check this out. All of these accounts should be terminated for
abusing Clickbank's guidelines.

[WayneB]

Also, the last time I tested this, it was quite a while ago, Clickbank had
told me that they had taken steps to stop this, and that their nickname
would not show on the order form. At that time, I did find that it was
indeed showing affiliate=none on the order form after getting their
popup. However, this time their id's are showing on the order form, so
they are stealing sales again.

[julz137]

Well spotted.

I wouldn't be supprised if they were also running an <embed> using their affiliate link within their product. One way to possibly test that is put some audio on the landing page of a hyjacked page and listen for the sound

[WayneB]

Actually, that's not the way 180solutions works. For more information
on what they do, check this out:
http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/180-affiliates/

They get their Zango Search Assistant on as many computers as
they can, and then when people that have this on their computer go
to an affiliate site, Zango pops up with the exact same site but with
their own affiliate id. I wouldn't be surprised if all three id's in my
first post belong to 180solutions themselves, signing up with Clickbank
to steal the commissions of others for themselves. I didn't find any
more id's than the three I identified in my first post.
And according to the information here:
http://www.benedelman.org/news/011705-1.html
dated January 17, 2005 (the text below taken straight from this page):

****
I have personally observed (and preserved in video recordings) more than two dozen instances of 180 software installed through security holes. (Example video.) Just yesterday, I browsed the Innovations of Wrestling site (iowrestling.com, proceed at your own risk), where viewing the site's privacy policy invoked a security exploit installing more than a dozen unwanted programs, 180solutions software included.

[Oliver]

I have seen it in the past where an affiliate ID that uses zango will go directly to the metricsdirect.com home page.

Try typing in the IDs and see where they go. None of the three actually go to metricsdirect.com, but two of those IDs you list have sites associated with them.

For anyone that does not know just go to:
http://hop.clickbank.net/?xxxxx/teampres
http://hop.clickbank.net/?xxxxx.idname

[TimS]

Ben Edelman points out there are a number of adware companies like 180Solutions, with huge amounts of cash being invested in each.

There was a big article about them in Newsweek last December. It's well worth a read.

Is Google in bed with them? One of the things Newsweek mentions (at page 4) is that Eric Schmidt, Google's CEO, is on the advisory board of the venture capital firm which provided $20 million to adware company Direct Revenue.

[WayneB]

Some more interesting information on 180:
http://forum.abestweb.com/showthread.php?t=54364

[WayneB]

Also, a lot of merchants will probably only see one or two sales from
these id's and think it's not a big problem. But if they stole just one
sale a day from 100 different merchants, it adds up to big money that
is being stripped from the rightful affiliates.

[WayneB]

Also, just to warn other affiliates, if you have received the $100 in
free advertising offer from Metrics Direct by email, this is the same
thing as what is happening here. Metrics Direct, 180solutions, Zango
are all the same. Just do a search on Google and you will find a lot
of interesting stuff. If you participate in this offer, you could find you
are breaking the rules of Clickbank.

[WayneB]

I've received an email from Clickbank regarding this:

***

Wayne,

The security team has taken the appropriate measures to keep this from
happening. Thank you for bringing this to our attention.

Tom

[WayneB]

Just tested Zango again, went to a few Clickbank sites from the
marketplace. Zango popped up a couple of times with the exact same
site again, with the id 'sixsig' both times. Clicked through to the order
form and sixsig was showing on the order form, so it looks like they
haven't stopped it yet.

[WayneB]

If anyone is trying to access the benedelman.org links I posted above,
it looks like he is currently under a DDOS attack. It will be interesting
to find out who is behind this.

More info here:
http://www.benedelman.org/news/020905-1.html

[WayneB]

I just tested Zango again, and they are still popping up the same site over top of others. I notice the
id 'sixsig' a lot, and when I click through to the order form it does show
'affiliate=sixsig' at the bottom.

[julz137]

What might help prevent some of these tactics is for Clickbank to alter their "last-affiliate-cookie-set-gets-commission" policy sightly so if a previous affiliate cookie has been set within the last say 5 minutes, it won't be overwritten. This will help prevent the use of cookie stuffing from products like their "Stealware" through <iframes> and <embed> codes that occur immediately after a genuine affiliate sends the merchant the customer.

[WayneB]

They're not using iframes or the embed command, they are popping
up the exact same site with their affiliate id through their Zango
application. Clickbank did tell me that they had taken steps to stop
this, so they may be already be doing something like you suggested,
I just noticed that the id was still showing on the order form, and
they have said in the past that if your id is showing on the order form
that you will get credit for the sale.

[julz137]

Well only just 2 days ago my test machine got infected with a whole lot of spyware so I took time out to test some of my clickbank affiliate links and i saw with my own eyes my affiliate ID code get changed and there was certainly no popup like what you describe.

In addition to that, I have been reading through that site you mention above for the last 2 hours. A lot of the documentation the author on there has written includes some of 180's techniques where they do use <IFRAME> . Here is a sample of what was reported on 1 of his pages regarding cj.com at least.


Silent affiliate code replacement without the use of popup windows

Not all 180 "cookie-stuffing" requires showing a duplicate window of the merchant's site. Some 180 cookie-stuffing uses hidden windows -- opened off-screen via IFRAMEs and similar methods -- to create or replace users' affiliate tracking codes without causing an extra window to be opened on the user's screen. Such an approach is implemented via instructions -- from 180's servers to 180 software on users' PCs -- of form shown below:

refer to http://www.benedelman.org/spyware/180-affiliates/

[WayneB]

I agree, there is a lot of crap going on online, there are many more
adware programs besides just 180 that steal commissions also. With
my testing of 180 I noticed the popups a lot with Clickbank, I never
really tested for the other methods but I am sure they do everything
they can to steal commissions. All of these adware programs have no
traffic of their own, they just use every method they can to get their
crappy programs on people's computers, and then use others traffic
to do everything they can to steal the credit for themselves. This is
why I like to host the sales pages on my own site and link direct to the
order form, there is less chance of commission theft that way. Many of
the applications pop up or use other methods to overwrite the cookie
once they get to the merchant's site. I was testing Zango with an
independent program I was promoting, when I clicked through on the
order link to go the the merchant's sales letter, they wouldn't popup,
but as soon as I clicked through to the order form they would popup
entirely over my order page with their order page and their affiliate
id. If you want to keep up to date with what is going on with a lot of
these adware programs, the ABW forum is a good place to get
information. There are also a lot of programs that block affiliate links
altogether. If you have KazaaLite on your computer, you won't be able
to access any hoplinks at all. About the only way I promote any products
anymore is if I can host the sales page on my site and link directly
to the order form.

[WayneB]

Also, the free beta Microsoft Antispyware is a very good program:
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/default.mspx
All affiliates should be recommending this program to their visitors if
they are interested in getting their rightful commissions. Many of the
other antispyware programs have adware of their own.

[WayneB]

Just curious, julz137, did you report that affiliate to Clickbank when
you witnessed the affiliate id changing. Even if you don't know exactly
how it happened, it would alert Clickbank and they could keep a closer
eye on this affiliate to see if they can see any thing that doesn't look
right.

[richyrich]

This affiliate is fraudulently stealing half my sales! He stole 13 sales which I believe should be mines! I'm the vendor so I can check his traffic which he brought like 14 hits to my site and got 13 sales. How in the world is that possible? I have a few affiliates that make a few sales a day which looks normal. All of a sudden this affiliate makes like half my sales and my usual sales stats drop. I spend over $7000 a week advertising in classified ads, google ad words, and overture to make the sales I make. How can it be possible that this smuck gets 14 hits a day make 13 sales? Also I contacted 8 of the customers that ordered and 4 replied and told me they ordered through my website. I already contacted click bank about this but what can they do? Very unusual. The sales he made cannot be from him! I'm so mad about this. Has anyone else had this happen to them?

Eric